an online community for those exploring the intersection of postmodern culture and Christian worship
if anyone is still checking in here, i was wondering what thoughts people had on sacraments. i am on the opinion that in the pomo world it is becoming more common that table comes before font. any thoughts?
posted by Leland @ 3:18 PM
1 comments
I set out this semester to hopefully gain a better understanding into the culture we call “postmodern” and subsequently to learn some ideas as to what postmodern worship looks like. I would say that this has been accomplished at some levels, but that the process still continues. My learning is not over in this area and I do no think I will ever know enough about it. Perhaps, by the time we have moved into a “post-postmodern” context (which some people suggest already is occurring) I will have a firm grasp on the postmodern world. In our group’s discussion in early April, we talked about “it”- trying to define what exactly postmodern worship was and I continue to revise my own understanding of what “it” is. What follows will be a reflection regarding what “it” is, as well as how this shapes my identity as a missional pastor.
This semester I read Pete Ward’s Liquid Church as well as Brian McLaren’s A Generous Orthodoxy in addition to a few chapters of other books. My hope was that these thinkers could help me think more deeply about the shape of the postmodern culture as well as the worship that would fittingly go along with it. These books, conversations with classmates, conversations with pastors “doing postmodern worship”, interviews with several young-adults who are n the “edge” of the church, and worshipping at a few of these places have helped me in my quest to get a handle on “it”.
My process currently stands with me defining postmodernity as a thought process above and beyond anything else. People no longer “think themselves into being” by reaching an ultimate truth that can be reached by anyone, but rather there are a variety of truths reflected in a variety of ways. Though often the people that think this way are young-adults, this cannot be a generality about the entire genre. Rather, the people are joined together by an often ambiguous thought pattern. As we have moved from modernity to postmodernity we have lost the need for concrete scientific reason and now can embrace the fact that what is true for you and your being is not necessarily true for me. Yet, in the postmodern worldview the dominant culture assigns certain things as more true over other things and this “truth” subsequently changes quite regularly. Also, and very important for the work of church leaders is the fact that people in this context who classify themselves as postmodern want to belong to something but are not entirely sure they want to be pressured to belong.
McLaren’s overview of all of the different traditions was very enlightening to me. I appreciated how he played with such a range of experiences and tried desperately to grasp “good” from all of them. If one is to embrace this type of generosity towards orthodoxy they quickly become part of a growing trend- picking and choosing aspects that seem right to you. While McLaren defends all of these traditions and suggests they all have pieces that can fit with the current context, Ward suggests the church must “liquefy” with the culture. The church must adapt to the rapid changing culture- and therefore if we are in a society where people want to belong to something, and are part of a consumer society- we must “market” church to fit their needs. Though I appreciate Ward’s work, I find myself wondering where we stop- at what point must we cling to the sacredness of church. Is everything up for grabs?
So what is it? (this worship we have tried to talk about)
I do not believe that postmodern worship is something that can be canned and sold to the masses, but rather is something that will emerge from the context it is part of. However, this emerging will take time and serious effort. The heart of the matter rests in the fact that it must come from the needs of the people- and be open to change as the make-up of needs change (in a sense be “liquid”). What I found most fascinating about the places I attended was that none of these so called “emerging” churches were exactly alike. They were what the group of people that made the church up needed them to be. This took on the form of very academic and heady in some cases and very emotional, sensory, and private in others. I truly do not think there is a right or wrong way for postmodern worship to take shape as long as it truly is trying to embrace the needs of the community it serves.
In the interviews I conducted I asked the question of what do you wish church was/is. Two responses stick out in my mind and I think fit into this discussion of “it”. One young man replied, “I wish a church could be structured simply for people to congregate together and support each other through prayer and faith. Churches have become too complex and control ridden.” A similar aged young woman responded to the same question by saying, “Maybe more spiritually based, rather than religion based. What I mean is not so concerned about a specific denomination but rather open to the working of the Spirit in various forms.” From this I gather a need to listen to the people we are ministering among. So often I think the mistake that is made is trying to control too much what will happen. If we become solid (to borrow from ward) we simply lose the opportunity to reach certain people. If we are open to changing- seriously listening and reflecting those concerns we hear- more people will feel they have a voice in the shape of the church and the worship. In some ways, I think the postmodern movement embraces a less hierarchical structure than the modern church. This is a good thing, but takes people a while to get used to- and some never will.
I don’t think that “it” can truly be an “it”. Rather we must embrace the idea that the culture continues to change around us. Yet, there are things we bring forward to the discussion. We can bring forth certain traditions that we feel are important to go along with the suggestions others bring. The challenge is navigating the discussion between all of these ideas. However, I think the discussion will lead to a pretty common consensus among those we encounter. In the ten interviews I did, the themes were similar throughout.
What this means to me as a missional pastor
The reality is starting to sink in that in a few months I will be a pastor of a church somewhere. Part of this call could be a mission-development position aimed at the young-adult generation. I wonder what I can bring to the table to offer these people (70%) of the area I am potentially going are unchurched. The work I have done for this course has helped me think critically about mission to a wide open mission field. I think I must bring forward an openness to listen, to challenge my own orthodoxy, and to challenge those I encounter to think – to think together, and to think alone. This can be very anxiety-filled but I think it must be that way. I must continue to rely on my mentors and my colleagues to inform my ideology and process.
Thanks for a great semester!
posted by Justin G @ 3:06 PM
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Final Thoughts
In the spirit of what I believe I have been learning this semester rather than produce a litany of the worship services I attended and books I read I am in this final post attempting to at least begin to address two of the many questions and or topics raised for me in the course of this semester. Perhaps this will be something like Jerry Springer’s “final thoughts.”
Specifically I will engage as if Postmodern/Emergent worship is a new “seeker movement” and whether postmodern worship has a particular character that can be reproduced. These questions were raised and initially addressed by myself or other individuals on this journey during our group gatherings or on the pomology blog (www.pomology.blogspot.com).
First though a word on what I think this is all about, what is postmodern/emergent. There is a lot of confusion and misconceptions about what post modernity is and many authors who have tried to address the issues surrounding it and how those issues affect the church. Anne Marie has done a find job in her annotated bibliography of outlining many of the resources anyone interested in learning more about this topic should engage.
While I will not claim to be an expert in postmodernity or the emergent movement within the church, my reading, conversations and experiences this past semester have given me an insight into what I believe postmodernity isn’t. This is one of the challenges for me when I think about postmodern/emergent worship and community, I can tell you more about what I don’t think it is, than what I do think it is. Ultimately though what I really think is that it is an attempt by a new generation of Christians, who are defined more by a way of thinking than by age, to reclaim something of Christianity for themselves.
Brian McLaren really hits on this in his book A Generous Orthodoxy. Here we see how he rejects the notion that any one tradition has absolutely nailed Christianity in their orthodoxy. For a new generation of thinkers, tired of the absolutes and doctrinal lines of modernity, this new movement allows some theological freedom and room to move away from Christianity as the status quo and instead be the radical message that it, at its heart, has always been.
Is Postmodern/Emergent worship a new “seeker” movement for college educated, under 35, computer and tech savvy, white former protestants?
The quick answer to this question is that despite appearances, certainly not. Many of the worshipping communities I visited certainly did carry this demographic trend and more than a few times I heard older visitors comment that the service was nice and that if it reached “young people” then they were all for it. Their was certainly a sense in these folks mind that this was a good “entry” point for this generation, not unlike the seeker services of their generation.
However, from what I have read, observed and seen in postmodern communities, the concepts underlying postmodern/emergent worship are certainly not intended to be seeker oriented. Although there is certainly an evangelical edge to it, it is evangelism that is sensitive to the many (mis)conceptions about Christians that exist in the postmodern culture. Dan Kimball made this point crystal clear in his presentation at the Quake conference where he should video and quotes from interviews of unchurched people in his community. Evangelism in this context then will have to be more about friendship and community than about monologue, as Brian McLaren makes clear in More ready than you realize: evangelism as dance in the postmodern matrix.
As such, I think churches that think they can start a “postmodern” service as an entry point into the main community worship will be very disappointed. Again and again in my experiences the importance of genuine community to the postmodern/emergent worship experience has been stressed. Also, these communities are not “doing” worship in ways that are setting their members up to be receptive to the big box Christianity of the boomer generation. With more intimate gatherings and an emphasis on the tactile and sensory parts of worship(notably the sacraments) the Christians that are worshiping in the emergent communities are developing their own sense of what worship and Christian community should be.
Whether this community is attractive to people outside of their demographics, I am not so sure yet. And as we discussed in the blog, individuals tend to worship with others who look like them and are relatively of the same social class as well. I don’t think Emergent should be saddled with proving themselves on this issue. However, I do believe that many of the features of emergent worship, especially the participatory and sensory elements, are attractive to individuals outside this demographic. One can see this in a renewed interest in the sacraments in mainline denominations as well as in non-denominational contexts.
What does postmodern worship look like?
Again it is hard to describe what this movement looks like and much easier to describe what it is not. As I stated before, I don’t think and Dan Kimball clearly agrees, that you cannot just produce a postmodern worship service from a can. In fact, as one of the worship experiences at Quake demonstrated clearly for me, just because the people in the band are Gen-Xer’s and the service is billed as postmodern, doesn’t mean it will be anything close to a postmodern experience.
You can’t just light up the incense, serve communion using real bread or have an artist producing a drawing while the service is going on and assume it is going to be postmodern. The mindset must be different and their must be room allowed for genuine questions to be addressed and worship of God take place on multiple levels.
Part of what I would hope postmodern worship would be about is a component of education and outreach to those who have had very little contact with the church. That opportunities would be taken, dropping the assumptions people understand our symbols and our metaphors, for education.
The postmodern/emergent movement to me, as I have seen it in this experience, is taking that time to welcome and explain and also understand that many of our symbols hold very different meaning for others. In this way worship moves away from modernity begins to take on the ethos of postmodernity. From absolutes and assumptions to questions, challenge and recognizes the anxiety within our communities.
Postmodern worship then, I believe, will ultimately be centered on contextual realities and focused on mission. It will never look the same in more than one place. Although this may make certain parts of our tradition that many have cherished (such as the very modern attempt to have a standard hymnal) obsolete, it does not in anyway diminish or neglect the need for sharing of information across geography and cross-generational borders. Different matrices for resource sharing will develop and communities, with faithfulness to the 2,000 year tradition of the church, will follow this tradition by taking the pieces of the liturgical tradition that work in their contexts and expanding on them.
This does exist I believe; many of the communities I visited are such places and the growing number of web connections shows how resource sharing utilizes the technology of our interconnected world. I think it has even existed in different forms throughout time, sometimes in surprising places.
I realized this when I thought of how native religion in
Although some see this as syncretism and relativism, and it certainly can become that, I think those are the power structures of modernity telling us we can figure it all out, rather than relying on God to reveal God to us. Postmodern worship should allow space for this revelation of God, it should not be all monologue, slickly moving from one thing to the next, but engage silence and time for prayer and reflection and listening to the many voices speaking to us about God and how God is at work in their lives.
posted by Anonymous @ 2:17 PM
1 comments
JoAnne is apparently having trouble posting to the blog, so she asked me to put this on for her. Interesting to read her reflections, I plan to do something like this very soon. Hope you all are well.
JoAnne Amaral
Post Modern Worship CL 4597
Professor Fryer
Churches attended:
Crossroads United Methodist
Shepherd of the
Upper Room (Christ Presbyterian)
Solomon’s Porch Minneapolis MN
Doug Pagitt, Re-Imaging Spiritual Formation
Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy
Dan Kimball, Emerging Worship
Attended: QUAKE Conference at Lord of
Worship
Ø There is no prescribed Post Modern worship style. Yes, there is more use of a multi-sensory approach to worship but there is no one size fits all solution. Kimball warns us that worship is not about multi-sensory but about God! (Kimabll 103)
Ø Many churches say that they are doing post modern worship but in reflection many are just modified contemporary services. Dan Kimball warns against the American Idol approach to worship which reduces leaders to performers and worshippers as judges. (Kimball 34)
Ø Post modern worship is still emerging and coming into its own identity. Minimal data exists on actual numbers on information concerning attendance, giving, etc.
Ø Post Modern worship needs to be multigenerational---we will loose a part of our identity of a gathered body if we do not embrace all generations.
Ø Post modern churches still reflect a predominately white middle class, educated, Anglo-Saxon make up.
Ø Worship is only one component of spiritual formation. “Perhaps we are Christians today are not only to consider what is means to be a 21st century church, but also—and perhaps more importantly—what it means to have a 21st century faith.” (Pagitt 22)
Ø Worship needs to be invitational, asking the question “what if God loved the world—what does that mean for us today.” (Brian McLaren)
Ø Key question people are asking about church “if I attend church, what practices will I learn, who will I become , will I become a better person. These are the questions we need to be able to respond to in our worship services and message. We can not ignore them.
Ø Worship experience with Brian McLaren at the 1st night of Quake was much more traditional contemporary worship (leader centric) and less than a post modern experience. McLaren read the story of the adulterous woman and asked us to participate in several roles as he read: as the woman, as someone in the mob and as Jesus. This could have been much more powerful if we had a chance to talk about this after it, but seemed to loose something by being almost forced back into the standard schema of worship (hymn after the sermon).
Ø The worship experience with Dan Kimball at the 2nd night of the Quake conference was post modern, I felt really involved. The experience invited you to participate in being in the presence of God through self reflection. It was interesting to get a chance to see where others were as part reflection process. This was kind of frightening because it really forces us to look at the other, this is something we rarely see happening at our traditional services.
Leadership
Ø Leadership in post modern churches is shared and people in the congregation are invited be part of the experience of worship, not just observers.
Ø Post modern thinkers are more than forward and visionary thinkers, they are risk takers willing to bring the gospel message into the 21st century. “I am increasingly convinced that what matters most in our efforts is our willingness to experiment and try—to develop expressions of faith that are full of our day and time, recognizing that our efforts will be adapted and changed in years to come.” (Pagitt 158)
Ø Leadership of the mega-churches is realizing that they are not reaching many younger people. Strategies of mega-churches are not necessarily creating disciples of Jesus Christ. (Walt Kallestad)
Ø Leadership is not about empire building. “I’d rather scatter the church than gather it.” (Walt Kallestad) This is a new day for the church, we are taking sending seriously.
Ø Dan Kimball #1 concern is conflict with in leadership, when egos and the need for control get in the way. Interesting comments considering the comments from Kallestad, the unfortunate reality is that we still carry around our need to be God. This has been and will be one of our greatest challenges as Post Modern leaders.
Ø “Leadership in the post modern era is more about living the message than making the message slicker” (Walt Kallestad)
Ø Current post modern leadership is heavily male centric. Women are active but have not taken a formal leadership role. In talking with Dan Kimball at the QUAKE Conference he says this is due impart to the few numbers of women publishing on this subject. This was an interesting comment and I have yet to figure out what this actually means. Are we looking to people to reinvigorate the church and create followers of Jesus Christ or are has post modern taken on the scholarly role of “publish or perish.”
Personal Thoughts:
Post modern worship is in its infancy. It is being tried out in many settings and I find that positive. I also find it important that there is no pre-described way to “do church” although there do seem to be common elements in most of the settings: call to worship, gathering and sending and proclamation of the Word. I personally believe that having some of these essential elements is important, it holds on to the timeless truths of our faith while still adapting it to the context of the time and place. C.S. Lewis recognized the changelessness of the liturgy as an extremely important and very valuable characteristic for practical reasons. He went so far as to say it should be like an old shoe; something that fits, something that doesn't have to be broken in all the time, something you don't even notice is there. He concludes these observations by saying "The perfect church service would be one we were almost unaware of; our attention would have been on God.” (litugica.com) Sounds to me like sound advise, as echoed by Dan Kimball and worship being multi-sensory.
I have to admit thought that I am concerned that we (as the organized church) will give this type of worship experience the time and freedom it needs to grow, adapt and evolve. We will need to curb our desire for immediate results and numbers to demonstrate its worth. Rather we need to give this component of Christian living a chance to emerge. “the God given thirst for emergence brings us beyond where we have been, It caused ancient Christians to emerge from first century Judaism.” (McLaren 284) And it this God given thirst that we need to continue and foster today.
Overall, it has been a pleasure to participate in this independent study collectively. (quite an oxymoron) Perhaps there is something here to be learned about seminary education in general. Whereby we come together for a purpose to share knowledge and experiences, and expect God to show up and guide us in our next steps. “To be a Christian in a generous orthodoxy way is not to claim to have the truth captured, stuffed, and mounted on the wall. It is rather to be in a loving (ethical) community of people who are seeking the truth (doctrine) on the road of mission (witness) and who have been launched on a quest by Jesus, who with us, guides us still.” (McLaren 293) Shalom.
posted by Anonymous @ 7:18 AM
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so what are some of y'all doing for your final work in this class? i am thinking about a reflection, beginning basically with this post, based on some of these blog conversations and our conversations in group. i have come to some really interesting(at least to me) questions about this "emerging" movement in the church and while this class has helped me explore them, it hasn't given me a lot of answers.
posted by Anonymous @ 11:05 AM
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at the quake conference dan kimball presented a powerful video in which he went around the campus of the university in santa cruz, where he lives, and asked them about jesus and about christians. the point he was trying to make, and made powerfully is that while many people have a great deal of respect for jesus, and many are even willing to believe he was god and raised from the dead, they have little respect for christians.
posted by Anonymous @ 2:17 PM
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Found this interesting article online today. Thought others would be interested too: Washington Times Article on Pluralism and Generation Y
posted by Leland @ 1:57 PM
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